Starting Up a campaign

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Starting Up a campaign

Postby fryguy49 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:04 pm

Hey folks.
So my game group is finishing up our current game and I am wanting to run a game of 7th Sea as it is my turn to GM.
I have three issues though that I have never been able to figure out how to make work when I play and GM in 7th Sea.
First Glamour Mages. Every game I have ever played has seen Glamour mages outpace every other player in terms of usefulness and power in my experience the games quickly turn into the glamour mage and his/her plucky sidekicks. Has anyone ever encountered this problem before and if so how have you dealt with it have there been any house rules that have helped?
Porte Mages I have had the exact opposite problem with. On paper and in the fluff they are incredibly cool. When the game starts though they are a giant porte hole that simply devours xp and gives nothing back. The players have had an incredibly hard time finding useful ways to use their powers.
The last issue I have run into is Panache. In the games I have played it seems to be hands down the most powerful stat. Have people run into this problem and if so is this something that needs to be fixed?
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Re: Starting Up a campaign

Postby Lady Grace » Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:25 pm

If you have issues with Glamour Mages, you could a) ban 'em at the start, b) only allow half-blooded, c) remember that Glamour is powered by Reputation -- and if said mages aren't doing noteworthy stuff, they really aren't going to have the OOMPH to power themselves.

I've played a Glamour Mage. She was half-blooded, she had some useful tricks, but it wasn't the end-all be-all of her character. And there was no way the other characters were her sidekicks.

How exactly do you use Panache in your games?
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Re: Starting Up a campaign

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:43 pm

My first thought is, re-read glamour. Seriously. I used to think it was awful too, but then I read it more carefully and voila. Case in point, that damn Thomas knack. You simply can't ever bring a mage anywhere near them or they'll know who it is, right? Well, no.

First off, the players will play it off like it always works. And that simply isn't true. If you read Apprentice Degree: The Blessing of Renown (PG p. 201) it clearly says that for any knack to work you have to spend a Drama Die.

Ok, so they have to expend 1 DD to get it started, but then they're safe, right? Well again, no. Take a look at all the other Apprentice Glamour knacks, some last as little as a single roll, and only one (Jack) lasts more than a scene. But if you look closer, the effect seems to dictate how long it lasts (get an extra something mundane until the next morning vs. add dice to a roll, once) So, why would Thomas last any more? My estimate would be a Scene. So, scene ends, Thomas ends and that means your player will need to remember to re-activate it. And that's the key of course, they need to remember.

But once they've got it up and paid for, they know all about your sneaky mages, right? Again, no. Take a look at the exact wording of Thomas...

Player's Guide, p. 203) wrote:Whenever someone (or something) that possesses sorcery comes with thirty feet of you, your left thumb begins to tingle. It continues to tingle until he or she moves out of range. When someone uses sorcery directly on you, you immediately detect what’s being done, and if you spend a Drama Die you may resist that magic.


So actually they only know there is a mage SOMEWHERE, not who it is, what kind of magic they have, etc. AND if you look at that sentence a bit closer, you'll notice that the definition of what a mage, or more specifically what triggers the thumb is also of contention. Take, for example a Sidhe Weapon, a Montaigne Puzzle Sword, or Dracheneisen. All of those have magic like abilities and there's nothing that precludes you from using those to answer your pesky Glamour Mage's question.

Now I'm not advocating you do this straight away, but if they're ruining someone else's fun (like say yours, which is important) turn their powers against them.

I'm certain that the other knacks have similar loopholes built into them.

But I agree with LG, if you have a problem with running them, ban 'em. It's your game after all.

Oh yea, one more thing, the GMG deals with the problems of having Mages in your game, (pp. 189-191)
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Starting Up a campaign

Postby Black Jack Rackham » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:08 pm

AAANNNDD Now that I actually read your question, I see that you didn't just ask about Glamour. So. lemme tackle your questions one by one.

1. Well already answered this one, see above.

2. The thing about all the sorcerous powers in 7th Sea is they require a bit of creativity to increase their utility. Again I'd recommend re-reading the rules for Porte. Certainly, the beginning Porte sorcerer can use their powers for little more than an extra carrying case. BUT that's only if you go with the idea that teleporting themselves around is the ultimate goal.

What if, instead, we think of the Porte sorcerer as a budding spy. No need to worry about walking into the lions den unarmed, you have all the heavy weapons you need at your disposal. so sure, go have a private confab with Sinore Villanova. What you need my weapons? No problem, here they are... But everyone thinks of that, so lets try this. We need to follow the courier to the secret meeting later tonight. So I simply put one of my blooded objects on him and then track him (using Attunement). Bad guys took us out into the countryside and dropped us off? No problem, I've been dropping blooded objects every once in a while, we can just track them back to the main roadway. Thief tries to sell you back your own artwork but double-crossed you and made a duplicate. Fortunately, you blooded that just before it was stolen and now you know he's trying to pull a fast one.

3. Hmm Panache is most powerful? I'd have guessed you'd say Finesse (since all the physical feats seem to use that). But this is really the easiest solution. The game is designed to make it so you (the GM) can pair up any Knack with any Trait. So, if you want to tune down Panache's utility, just don't use it as much. Sure the players are going to bellyache about how they're doing everything With Style but that's really just their excuse to try and use the one trait they've put the most points into. Use Brawn for climbing and other stuff like that (in addition to soak rolls), use Finesse for attack and Wits for defense, when the fight goes on too long force them to switch to Resolve for both, and only use Panache for those times when they're trying to make a show of it (Dancing, Painting, etc.), pair stuff together that doesn't seem to go like Resolve + Calligraphy just to shake the players up.

Or better yet, pull the game away from the dice rolls and into the roleplaying realm. Then they're completely at your mercy. No amount of dice is going to help them when the four-year old starts crying because her cat is missing and the players really need to leave town quickly (knowing that should they just leave the poor little thing in distress their reputations will suffer for it)...
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Re: Starting Up a campaign

Postby Kormak » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:03 pm

Black Jack Rackham wrote:The game is designed to make it so you (the GM) can pair up any Knack with any Trait. So, if you want to tune down Panache's utility, just don't use it as much.


Panache already isn't much used for rolling. Its power comes from providing more actions, which is an incredibly useful ability.
That said, I'd still rate Finesse as a bit more useful. You have to be able to take advantage of all those actions, after all.
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Re: Starting Up a campaign

Postby kckrupp » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:35 pm

I find it really interesting that you think Porte is weak while Glamour is underpowered, because after years of play, I very strongly feel that Porte is the most powerful sorcery in the game. If you take your head out of combat for a bit and get creative...yeah...really powerful. Here's one thing to mull over...maybe you don't blood the object directly, but rather something that you can easily attach to or remove from an object...don't blood the letter, blood the ribbon that you wrap around the letter. Portiers can send blooded items to each other, which makes the follower and connection advantages invaluable for Portiers. Chew on that for a bit.

Apprentice Porte Mage trapped in a dungeon bloods a letter and sends it to his Porte-using Noble-blooded Brother: "Hey, please come immediately, I need your help." Brother sends back a blooded object of his own, walks to it, and then a few moments later is standing in the dungeon. Brother frees apprentice Porte mage, and a few moments later they're back at brother's parlor sipping cognac.

Also, while the core rules say you can't send something to a blooded object, pretty much every example of Porte given goes completely against this, like literally, the 3rd or 4th published supplement Lady's Favor goes demonstrates that this rule makes absolutely no sense.

Kormak wrote:Panache already isn't much used for rolling. Its power comes from providing more actions, which is an incredibly useful ability.
That said, I'd still rate Finesse as a bit more useful. You have to be able to take advantage of all those actions, after all.


While I agree Finesse is pretty useful, the first time I played a Montaigne with 4 Panache I decided I never wanted to go without high Panache ever again.
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